Embark on a journey through the peaks and valleys of real estate investing with a real estate mogul hailing from Vaughan.
Welcome back to “Inspired To Invest” episode 50. This week Mathew Frederick is with us to share real estate investing strategies mastered over four decades of experience scaling a portfolio.
As we sit across from this industry stalwart, you’ll be privy to a first-hand account of buying a home when interest rates were soaring and how that challenging start led Mathew down the path to becoming a full-time investor.
His tales of navigating through tumultuous market crashes and leveraging house hacking into profitable ventures weave a tapestry of strategies that any budding or veteran investor will find invaluable.
The road to financial freedom isn’t just a straight sprint; it’s a marathon with hurdles along the way. Mathew and I dissect this journey, discussing his pivot from academia to investing, the art of surviving market lows, and the golden rule of balancing cash flow with fix-and-flip projects.
We shed light on the alchemy of joint ventures and the importance of choosing partners who not only share your investment goals but also enrich your personal growth. Mathew candidly shares the hard-learned lessons of dabbling in commercial real estate too hastily and the enduring impact personal trials can have on your professional endeavors.
Closing this episode, Mathew bestows wisdom on the rollercoaster of multifamily property management, providing cautionary tales and laugh-out-loud moments that come with the territory. We stress the monumental role mentorship plays in real estate success and how Mathew’s pivot towards industrial investments reflects the ever-evolving nature of the market.
This isn’t just a conversation; it’s a masterclass on why real estate can be the cornerstone of personal freedom, and why annual reflections and embracing new strategies are critical for ongoing success.
Tune in to this episode to have your investment perspectives broadened and your horizons infinitely expanded.
Tune into this inspiring episode on Wed., Jun. 5/24. To connect with Mathew, click here. go to
Thank you to Jordan McGregor from Property Cast for bringing us this month’s episodes of “Inspired To Invest? Learn more about this amazing program to help real estate investors underwrite properties.
“Inspired to Invest” is proud to support the Beyond Success Program, a not-for-profit financial literacy program for students, launched by More To Give & MAK Investments. Find out more on social or online.
Join us again on Jun. 12 to learn important real estate tips for investors along with how to adapt to and navigate a down real estate market.
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Real Estate Investing Transcript
Speaker 1
00:02
Welcome to the Inspire to Invest podcast, where we’re sharing stories from real estate investors and how investing has changed their lives. Thank you to PropertyCastio for bringing you this month’s episodes of Inspired to Invest. Hey everybody, welcome to the Inspire to Invest podcast. I have Matthew Frederick joining us from Vaughan today, and he’s got ample experience a few decades worth of real estate investing experience under his belt, starting with his first purchase back in 1984 when interest rates were soaring at 12.7%. Everyone’s crying right now about the 6%, but he’s been through much higher and he’s worked his way through six housing market crashes in Canada as well as the United States. So he has ample experience and insights when it comes to the behaviors and strategies that can be leveraged during turbulent times like the ones that we’ve been experiencing over the last year to year and a half. So thank you for your time today and joining us, matthew. How are you? I?
Speaker 2
00:57
am fantastic and thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1
01:00
So now, obviously, you’ve got lots of experience under your belt, but prior to 1984, what were you doing before real estate came into the picture, and why did you decide to move forward in that way?
Speaker 2
01:11
So I was actually a private vocational school teacher. So I was teaching college at that time and before that I was into computer systems. But I actually bought my first house at 19. I didn’t get into investing full time until about 24, 24 and a half, so my first investment house at 19. But yeah, I was teaching college and I was created a little small business on how to teach people how to use computers, Because back in those days the personal computer had just come out.
Speaker 1
01:40
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that’s awesome. So obviously you started out with your primary residence. What was really the catalyst then to start investing beyond that?
Speaker 2
01:49
So my primary residence. I literally rented the basement so it was more of a. I shared the kitchen, so today you call that house hacking.
Speaker 1
01:56
Yeah, before it was a term.
Speaker 2
01:58
Yeah, we shared the kitchen back then. We didn’t call it house hacking, we just called it. You know, share your kitchen house hacking, we just called it. You know, sherry kitchen, yeah. But uh, about four and a half years later, my brother came to me. He was a police officer and he says hey, I want you to invest with me because you’re a systems guy. I’m like, I’m not interested in investing in real estate. I already have my own investment property. Yeah, he says I’m your older brother, I got a gun. You’re gonna invest with me. So he forced me into the process. So everybody who got in there on their own that’s pretty amazing. I got pulled into it and then we started buying properties together. I had a good income, he had a great income, yeah.
Speaker 1
02:33
And what did that really look like? Were you initially starting out with single family homes? Or, you know, was multifamily even on your radar at that point in time?
Speaker 2
02:40
Well, we started in the Hamilton downtown so we started off with triplexes, so not single family homes. Yeah, I mean as a police officer he’d go into all these properties to deal with domestics.
Speaker 1
02:52
And he said to me hey, you know guess what this is.
Speaker 2
02:55
This is a potential. So we started off with, first floor, two bedrooms. Second floor, three bedroom. Third floor would be a bachelor apartment. Yeah, instead of buying those houses. And then we switched to what was called a four level back split, which means we renovated the top and we renovated the basement, so two family homes never, ever got into one single family homes yeah, now what was the price point then, compared to like what that would look like on the same property today?
Speaker 1
03:21
just to like draw that comparison.
Speaker 2
03:22
So in 1984, properties were around, you know, 75,000 to 80,000. The trifecta would be about, maybe about 105,000. Keep in mind that, uh, someone who’s working full-time, an adult, is making about 35,000 a year. Yeah, house would be two and a half years worth of salary today if you, if you’re making $65,000 a year, the house is $700,000, 11 times a salary. So it’s changed dramatically since then, for sure.
Speaker 1
03:55
Yeah, no, that’s amazing. Now, as you started to scale, I know that you have eventually gone into things like land development and assemblies and stuff like that. Can you talk about how you jumped from you know triplexes to something like building an apartment?
Speaker 2
04:09
Well, we actually went from the triplexes to multifamily, and when I say multifamily I mean six plus. What happened is at some point we had about 20 or 30 properties, probably 32 properties, and I’d come home from a hard day’s work and back in those days we were flip phones. I get a phone call and I’m exhausted and I’m like I have so many properties and I come home from a hard day’s work and back in those days we were flip phones. I get a phone call and I’m exhausted and I’m like I have so many properties, I’m supposed to be rich. I have so many doors, I’m supposed to be rich, but I found that properties are like kids.
04:35
I literally found myself running after them. So I kind of got into real estate to, let’s say, be free, but I became a slave to the property. So then we thought you know what? Why have 32 locations? Why not just start buying larger buildings so like 10 unit, 12 unit, 24 unit, 34 unit buildings and have a superintendent or a manager managing for us, so we can actually live our lives? So that’s why we decided to make that jump.
Speaker 1
05:03
Now, how did you finance those properties?
Speaker 2
05:07
Well, because we had the houses, the duplex, triplex, we ended up selling off a few of those.
05:14
We paid capital gains and then we went towards buying some of those properties, but that’s the first few. Later on, my way of financing is I would always find older property owners when I say older, I mean 65 to about maybe 75. And I would ask them if they want to sell. And if they wanted to sell then I would buy from them and have them hold a mortgage. Some of them didn’t want to sell but they had lots of equity because they bought their properties a long time before. So I was able to bore against their equity and buy other properties where I kind of JV’d with them. So if they were too old to stay in the game from their perspective and I’m like I’m still young why don’t we buy a property together? We use your money, your credit, we JV, and that’s how I was able to buy the two $3 million buildings, because I had to use their money and I provided that excitement for them because they still wanted to be in the game.
Speaker 1
06:12
Now I know in your bio you talk about investing across Canada as well as the United States. What markets have you primarily been?
Speaker 2
06:15
focusing on. Well, that was interesting because in 1997 to about, let’s say, 2003, I was an international speaker and that meant that I was flying to different provinces every single month and you know, we had classes of 200 to about 500 people. I was working for an organization called Whitney and therefore, because I was going to different spaces to speak, I started investing in BC, in Alberta, in Saskatchewan, in Ontario and then throughout the US, because I happened to be flying in speaking there.
06:48
We sold training packages, courses, mentorships, and then I would stay for a few extra days, so it wasn’t driven by what market I want to be in. I just happened to be in those markets. You might as well take a property tour while I’m here?
Speaker 1
07:05
Why not? Why not? Who owns this building over here? Now? You obviously talked about working as a college professor, so how long did that take from you know, maybe buying your first investment property to when you were basically retiring from that role?
Speaker 2
07:15
So my first investment was at 19, but my serious investing started at 24 and a half. So from 24 and a half to about 34 and a half, it took about 10 years for me to be able to, let’s say, walk away from my job, and that was a choice, because my world was closing in on me. I thought, geez, I’m just revisiting the same things over and over again. I didn’t just leave tomorrow. It took 10 years to be able to have that money saved up, learn what I was doing, understand the process and actually go through a market flop. Yeah, that once I was through a flop and I came out of it, I’m like, okay, I think I’m ready to walk away from my job. Yeah, people today, in good times, they leave their jobs, which is not bad, yeah. But then when a flop hits now, they have to deal with a flop without their main job, and this is how the world works today.
Speaker 1
08:08
Well, I’m sure you’ve seen and experienced that as well. So many investors right now talking about their mortgages increasing like 200, 400%. So they’re barely making payments, let alone being able to take any cashflow to the properties, even if they have hundreds of doors. So for you, when you made that decision, was it based on a certain volume of cashflow that you had coming in from your whole portfolio, or was it you know the value of the portfolio that made you comfortable to walk away?
Speaker 2
08:30
Well, my job is paying, I think, about 80,000 a year. That was good. My income coming in from real estate combined real estate was superior to that and I was doing less for it. But I’ve always done a combination. I’ve always bought properties and held them to get cash flow.
08:49
But for every three properties I have and I’m holding, I’m going to do a buy, fix and sell for one of them to put, let’s say, a lump sum of money in my pocket Because cash flow is great. But you cannot survive a recession with just cash flow. That lump sum of money in my pocket because cashflow is great, but you cannot survive a recession with just cashflow. That lump sum of buy, fix and sell or wholesaling a great deal that I secure the right to buy and I wholesale it, that chunk of money. Having both those side by side gave me the opportunity to say, hey, you know what, maybe it’s time to move on. Yeah, it was very gradual for me. I didn’t plan it, it just I woke up one day and said things are going pretty good. Yeah, I have, you know, extra time and space. I’m making okay money. I’m knowledgeable. I put 10 years in and I just kind of slowly walked away.
Speaker 1
09:35
Yeah, yeah, no. I always find that really interesting just to see, like, what people define that moment as Now, based on everything that you have gone through in the last few years. Let’s just say that what would you say is something that you’re most proud of or you look at as your biggest success?
Speaker 2
09:50
Well, incidentally, a lot of people do not like joint ventures. They want to buy that property, finance it themselves, and that’s tremendous.
10:01
But I have a lot of joint ventures and and I’ve joined ventures with single like one person. So one person joined ventures and I joined venture mainly with people around 45 to about, let’s say, 75. And the older folk, the folks who are 65 to 75, being my partner, you know I’ve gained so much wisdom from them. I’m not just providing money, I’m providing sustenance in the sense that they feel as though they’re heard, they’re understood, someone’s interested in what they’ve gone through, and I’ve grown tremendous by having older partners who would share their experiences with me. So I think that’s one of the best things that I’ve experienced Just these great people that share their lives with me, and I love it. It’s amazing.
Speaker 1
10:41
Yeah, no, and I think that’s you know. It’s about properties, but it’s also about the people and the lives that you can impact along the way. Right, that’s right Now. In terms of obstacles, obviously talked about those really high interest rates. Would you look at that as one of the biggest obstacles that you faced, or would there be another you know, market downturn that you would look at as like the biggest challenge that you’d had up until that point?
Speaker 2
11:00
No, I think my biggest challenge was not to do with interest, although I’ve gone through high interest, low interest. It’s to do with me personally, two things I had issues with Number one. I thought that if I knew my stuff and I partnered with somebody else, or I did business with somebody else who didn’t, I’m going to compensate for their weakness. But what I realized? That some people just don’t accept responsibility, they just don’t see the big picture. And I’ve had to then go in the breach and suffer, lose, because those partners, whether they’re contractors, whether they are joint venture partners, whether they’re people who are lending me money, they can’t seem to pull it together. So the concept thinking that I can actually solve all problems or the fact that I’m invincible, that caused me, let’s say, a lot of strain in the past. I had to get over that and realize it. You know, even SEAL Team 6 gets, you know, gets killed.
11:57
And then, secondly, I jumped too fast from one to the other. I went from, let’s say, residential right to commercial, even though I had multi-unit buildings, without actually understanding or taking time to learn commercial. I made some mistakes that cost me probably about $400,000. In the end the property worked out, but the pain and stress that came with it. It didn’t have to happen, although I did learn from it. So in both cases it was more about me, not about the interest rates or the market drop. That doesn’t really affect me. I literally would adjust to whatever is needed.
Speaker 1
12:36
Yeah, no, that makes sense and it’s a good segue into my next question in regards to lessons. So you obviously talked about maybe jumping into a bigger asset class and not necessarily doing the due diligence that you should have. So can you talk about some of those lessons that you learned and if you could go back, is there anything you know now that you would have done differently if you knew it at that point in time?
Speaker 2
12:56
Yeah, it’s the reason why I jumped into those asset classes. You know it’s funny. You know people talk about your why. You know my why is I want to get to the moon, for instance, and you know how do you get there. You get there with real estate, maybe You’re a rocket, but nobody talks about the fuel. You need fuel to get from stage to stage to stage.
13:14
Yeah, and the reason why I definitely jumped into some of the larger stuff things I didn’t have to is because, you know, I grew up in Canada in the 70s and you know I’m a visible minority and I went through some tough times although I don’t regret it, I’m okay with it, but those times caused me to feel second class, like a second class citizen, and my confidence was very low. So sometimes I overcompensated, I used that fuel in my rocket to overcompensate, to, let’s say, feel equal and this could be anybody, at any stage or any category and I drove too hard in certain areas and then, all of a sudden, when that fuel was burnt up and I felt as though, hey, I feel equal.
Speaker 1
13:55
I had the knowledge.
Speaker 2
13:56
I knew the goal, but I was spinning my wheels. I didn’t realize that I needed new fuel, but that spinning my wheels.
Speaker 1
14:06
I didn’t realize that I needed new fuel. Yeah, that’s spinning my wheels. Doing nothing caused me to act too soon or act too quickly, yeah. I’m sure you’re trying to prove something exactly. There’s just someone else, or yourself, but yeah. I understand what you’re saying.
Speaker 2
14:13
I should have actually found my next set of fuel and then, uh, gone into that, but it’s that’s in between fuels. Feeling as though nothing’s happening caused me to act too soon on certain things.
Speaker 1
14:24
Yeah, no, I understand that Great. So, on that note, we’re just going to take a really brief break for a word from our sponsors and we’ll be right back. Inspired to Invest is proud to support the Beyond Success program. In today’s complex world, it’s absolutely crucial for our youth to learn how to take charge of their financial future. We believe that every young person deserves access to accurate, practical financial information. Designed to bridge the gap, the Beyond Success program leverages a comprehensive educational boot camp to equip young minds with essential financial literacy skills. At Beyond Success, it’s not just about teaching financial literacy. It’s also about fostering a foundation for a prosperous and empowered future. Join us Together, we can build a brighter financial future for the next generations. Join us Together, we can build a brighter financial future for the next generations.
15:19
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16:14
Looking to buy, sell or invest in Durham region or Toronto. Let’s chat. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Inspired to Invest podcast. I have Matthew Frederick here with me today and he’s been investing in real estate for the past 30 years all across Canada and also into the US. So we’re talking about some of those obstacles, challenges and lessons that have come along with being a real estate investor. But what’s the craziest thing you think’s ever happened on your journey?
Speaker 2
16:37
Okay, I mean, there’s been a lot of crazy things. But owning multifamily buildings, like larger buildings, let’s say 12 to 64 units, yeah, I don’t realize that even if you’re not managing, you still have to deal with domestic crisis. So, for instance, you know I’ve actually had somebody die in one of my units for about two weeks before that person was discovered. Yeah, it’s not a pretty sight. Or even you know, the person in in a unit A and the person in unit, let’s say, B decide to meet in the laundry room and all of a sudden strike up a relationship and all of a sudden each, each person’s spouse finds out and the whole place goes berserk. Yeah, domestic things like that. Or you know, I had a six-unit building, had a guy who was trying to sell crack cocaine out the basement window. Oh no, His girlfriend was a prostitute, not the expensive kind, and she literally would do her trade in the laundry room.
Speaker 1
17:38
So we have to deal with all that. We didn’t know the laundry rooms were such bustling places. So, yeah, you really have to control that laundry room, you know. Shut down the times. Put a camera in there. Yeah, I don’t need camera for recording stuff.
Speaker 2
17:50
I just yeah to deter people.
Speaker 1
17:51
Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, that’s definitely pretty crazy, but at the same time, I guess never a dull moment perspective. Uh, so, in terms of things like real estate education and mentorship, what would you say is some of the best advice that you’ve been giving and what would you suggest to maybe a real estate investor that’s coming up the ranks, that’s trying to learn from people that have been there?
Speaker 2
18:12
Well, again, it’s important to understand that you’re competing against yourself. You’re not looking at how many doors somebody has. You’re looking to answer the question to who you are 10 years from now, because who I am today is accountable to that person 10 years from now, and that’s who I have to answer to, not what everybody else is having or what everybody else has. Another thing, too is sometimes, when people teach you learn stuff, people don’t give exact detail. They give just a smothering of general knowledge. Being a generalist or having general knowledge but feeling as though you have extreme competence, that’s a dangerous combination. Yeah, thinking that you know how to fly a jet and then getting into that jet and realizing that you can’t. So mentors are important to walk you through that process in order to get you there. I think that’s really important to understand.
Speaker 1
19:06
Now, obviously, you have this breadth of experience and you’ve got a sizable portfolio. So at this point, what’s next for you? Are you still looking to scale and grow? Are you just kind of stabilized at this point in time? What would be your focus for the next five to 10 or 20 years?
Speaker 2
19:22
So I’m pretty stable at what I’m doing, but now I’m getting into warehousing. So therefore, right now, working with a few of the couples Jacob Elias, also Amy and Nigel Brooks we’re looking at building a warehouse a hundred thousand square foot warehouse just outside of London, and warehousing not just a warehouse but a distribution center. The big difference is, with warehouses, things go in and come out, distribution, things get reorganized. Yeah, now I’m getting into that field because industrial real estate is really one of the highest paying real estates Subject to my. Second best that I own is storage. Yeah, then strip plaza, then multifamily Interesting storage, then strip plaza, then multifamily. So I’m looking to build a number of hundred thousand square foot distribution centers across Southern Ontario.
Speaker 1
20:12
Yeah, Now how would you look at real estate investing and like how it’s changed your life, Like you know, what do you think life would look like? How do you not gone down this path?
Speaker 2
20:22
You know it’s a major change, because I would be. Although I was always entrepreneurial, I always had my own business. I find that with real estate, it works 24 hours a day for you. And because it’s working 24 hours a day, if you have the right system in place, then I can duplicate myself. And that’s the problem A lot of people cannot duplicate themselves, create a bunch of mini-me’s. To me, every property that I have is a mini-me and I can have four, five, six, ten throughout the country and the US working for me while I’m living my life. So it’s important to have that concept. I’ve had restaurants, and having a restaurant means you have to be there. Even if you’re the owner, you have to show up, yeah, Whereas with real estate, if it’s organized, you can actually pay for management.
Speaker 1
21:12
Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. Is there anything that you think someone that wants to aspire to, maybe the scale that you’ve grown, things that you would pass along as like, if you could pass along one pearl of wisdom like, what would that be for someone that’s kind of coming up the ranks?
Speaker 2
21:26
Well, two things. You know a lot of people. They read a lot of information and, like for me, at the end of the year I always read one special book and that book’s called the Book of Me, which means I spent all of December going through everything that happened to me throughout the entire year. Going through everything that happened to me throughout the entire year. I was asking myself what did I do right, what did I do wrong, what can I improve on, what went a little bit slower than I thought. That’s really important, because some people pay so much more attention to other people’s books, but you do have to understand what you are doing At the same time. I don’t read that much. I read a lot of other things, but, but I read four real estate books a year and you know I might read one in January, spend February learning some techniques and then March applying them, and then do that again and again. So if I applied about 12 new techniques that I’m living and only read four books, yeah, better than reading 50 books.
Speaker 1
22:21
But not doing anything.
Speaker 2
22:23
What you’re reading. Yeah, be careful about that.
Speaker 1
22:26
Yeah, yeah, no. I think that makes perfect sense and I think the the key is really just to get started right. Like so many, people are so nervous and apprehensive and time can go by far more quickly than you can expect, so I think, to your point, just learn what you can learn from others and take some action. Um now, obviously the name of this podcast is inspired to invest, so I always like to ask people if there’s a particular quote that motivates or inspires them.
Speaker 2
22:49
I think for me it’s, you know, fortune favors the bold. I learned to build by flying out to Alberta when they told me not to come out there, a company and I demanded to learn to build. Everything that I’ve done, I’ve always had to risk and I find that fortune theory is the bold. You got to be bold about it, and when people say no, you can’t do it anyway, and ultimately that’s. That’s something that I’ve always used.
Speaker 1
23:15
Now, that’s great. Now, is there anything in particular you want to leave with anyone that could be listening or watching right now?
Speaker 2
23:22
Yeah, if you have a partner in your business, so let’s say okay, let’s say it’s a couple, let’s say there’s a masculine, there’s a feminine. Let’s just say the feminine is doing a lot of the groundwork, just happens to be doing a lot of the 10-parters, where you’re getting the insurance done, you’re ordering the stock, you’re ordering supplies, you’re balancing everything. And let’s say the masculine, in this scenario, happens to be doing the physical work. And it could be either one. Yeah, masculine comes home and says hey, I had a complete day today. I just completed the room. The feminine comes home and says, hey, I didn’t get anything done, but I tried 10 things. Yeah, Masculine says to feminine you need to get something done, that’s a problem.
24:03
So both parties have to understand that each person is doing a different role. Yeah, although a role is not completed, you still have to respect that person for their multiple part role, as opposed to just feeling complete Because you can see, at the end of the day, I put up a door. I think that’s really important for couples and business partners to understand. Yeah, whether it’s masculine or feminine, that’s really important for couples and business partners to understand. Yeah, whether it’s masculine or feminine, that’s not the issue, it’s just two different parties doing two different complete jobs.
Speaker 1
24:30
Yeah, no, I understand that. I think, at the end of the day, a lot of people always think they’re the ones that are working harder, right, but if you are going to partner with someone, just having those roles and responsibilities really clearly outlined from the beginning could prevent some issues that could happen down the road. But, that being said, thank you for your time today. If someone does want to get in touch, I know that you do have different programs coming up in terms of teaching people about various components of real estate investing, but what’s the best way for them to find you and reach out?
Speaker 2
24:58
Well, they can go to my website, and that’s just a six little characters rccsolcom.
Speaker 1
25:04
Great and we’ll include that in the show notes below along with your social media handles. So thank you, of course, for your time today For anyone that has tuned in. If you have enjoyed this episode, please make sure that you like, comment and subscribe. Make sure that you’re also following along on social at Inspired to Invest podcast and remember, when you invest in yourself, the sky’s the limit. Thanks again, invest podcast, and remember, when you invest in yourself, the sky’s the limit. Thanks again. Thank you to PropertyCastio for bringing you this month’s episodes of Inspired to Invest. The views represented on this podcast are for general information only and does not constitute investment or other professional advice or an offering of securities. The host and guests featured on Inspired to Invest make no representations as to the performance of any particular investment. Should you decide to make an investment, you are responsible for conducting your own review and analysis. It is recommended that you obtain independent legal accounting and tax advice from licensed professionals.